"Just Say Yes": Trump Demands Media Abandon Reality for His Version
The interview moment that perfectly encapsulates Trump's relationship with truth and expectations of media compliance.
It's not often that an interview so perfectly encapsulates a politician's relationship with reality, but Donald Trump's recent sit-down with ABC News's Terry Moran gives us exactly that — a window into Trump's expectation that the press should simply bend to his version of events, regardless of whether they're true.
During the interview, Trump repeatedly insisted that Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man mistakenly deported to El Salvador despite a protective order, had "MS-13" tattooed on his knuckles. When Moran correctly pointed out this wasn't true, Trump became increasingly agitated.
"On his knuckles — he had MS-13," Trump insisted.
"He had some tattoos that are interpreted that way," Moran responded accurately.
Trump doubled down: "It says M-S-one-three."
When Moran explained that the letters "MS-13" were digitally added to the images Trump was referencing, the former president lost his cool. In perhaps the most revealing moment of the exchange, Trump literally demanded that Moran abandon journalistic integrity and just lie: "Why don't you just say, 'Yes, he does,' and, you know, go on to something else."
That single line tells us everything we need to know about how Trump views the press's role: not to report facts or challenge lies, but to simply affirm whatever narrative he's pushing.
The truth about Abrego Garcia's tattoos is clear. Multiple gang experts have examined the images and explained that while Abrego Garcia does have tattoos on his fingers (a leaf, smiley face, cross, and skull), these are not MS-13 gang markings. The image Trump keeps referencing has digitally added labels suggesting these common symbols represent "M," "S," "1," and "3" — an interpretation experts have dismissed as baseless.
This isn't just about tattoos. The entire justification for leaving Abrego Garcia in an El Salvadoran prison hinges on painting him as a dangerous gang member — a claim built on incredibly shaky evidence. And when confronted with facts that contradict this narrative, Trump doesn't adjust his position; he demands the reporter change reality to match his claims.
If this seems familiar, it should. Trump has spent years conditioning his supporters to distrust any information that contradicts him while simultaneously demanding that media outlets simply parrot his version of events. It's the same playbook dictators have used throughout history: control the information landscape by making the truth whatever you say it is.
The interview also revealed Trump's admission that he could easily secure Abrego Garcia's return with a simple phone call to El Salvador's president — directly contradicting his administration's claims that they can't intervene due to Salvadoran sovereignty. When Moran pointed out Trump could "pick up [the phone] and with all the power of the presidency" get him released, Trump admitted, "I could."
This is more than just an academic debate about some guy's tattoos. It's about whether our institutions — including the press — maintain their independence and commitment to facts, or whether they'll be browbeaten into submission by a president who literally tells reporters to "just say yes" when he makes false claims.
The moment highlighted the exact challenge journalists face when interviewing Trump. Do they push back and risk his angry tirades? Or do they "just say yes" and move on to keep the interview going? Moran, to his partial credit, tried to hold the line, though he eventually had to retreat with an "agree to disagree" just to move the conversation forward.
This is ultimately what Trump wants — a media that either actively promotes his falsehoods or is too intimidated to challenge them. Just say yes, stop asking questions, and we can all move on.
But we can't move on, because the stakes here aren't just journalistic integrity; they're democracy itself. When a president demands that reality conform to his statements rather than the other way around, we're no longer in the realm of politics-as-usual. We're in the realm of authoritarianism, where truth is whatever the leader says it is.
And for anyone paying attention, that should be terrifying.
Here’s the video:
TERRY MORAN: Alright. Well, let me ask about one man and one court order. Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He's the Salvadoran man who crossed into this country illegally but who is under a protective order that he not be sent back to El Salvador. Your government sent him back to El Salvador and acknowledged in court that was a mistake. And now the Supreme Court has upheld an order that you must return him to the -- facilitate his return to the United States. What are you doing to comply?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, the lawyer that said it was a mistake was here a long time, was not appointed by us -- should not have said that, should not have said that. And just so you understand --
TERRY MORAN: Said it in court. Said it in court --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- the person that you're talkin' about, you know, you're makin' this person sound -- this is a MS-13 gang member, a tough cookie, been in lots of skirmishes, beat the hell out of his wife, and the wife was petrified to even talk about him, okay? This is not an innocent, wonderful gentleman from Maryland --
TERRY MORAN: I'm not saying he's a good guy. It's about the rule of law. The order from the Supreme Court stands, sir --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He came into our country illegally.
TERRY MORAN: You could get him back. There's a phone on this desk.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I could.
TERRY MORAN: You could pick it up, and with all --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I could
TERRY MORAN: -- the power of the presidency, you could call up the president of El Salvador and say, "Send him back," right now.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And if he were the gentleman that you say he is, I would do that.
TERRY MORAN: But the court has ordered you --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But he's not.
TERRY MORAN: -- to facilitate that -- his release--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I'm not the one making this decision. We have lawyers that don't want --
TERRY MORAN: You're the president.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- to do this, Terry --
TERRY MORAN: Yeah, but the -- but the buck stops in this office --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I -- no, no, no, no. I follow the law. You want me to follow the law. If I were the president that just wanted to do anything, I'd probably keep him right where he is --
TERRY MORAN: The Supreme Court says what the law is.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Listen. I was elected to take care of a problem that was -- it was -- a, a unforced error that was made by a very incompetent man, a man that turned out to be incompetent that you always said was wonderful, a great genius, right? And now you find out -- all of the media, now they're saying what a mistake they made. A man who was grossly incompetent allowed us to have open borders where millions of people flowed in --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I campaigned on that issue. I wouldn't say it was my number one issue, but it was pretty close.
TERRY MORAN: Right up there.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I campaigned on that issue. I've done an amazing job. I have closed borders. He said you couldn't do it, you wouldn't be able to do it, it would never happen. Well, it happened. And it happened --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- very quickly. Wait a minute. When we have criminals, murderers, criminals in this country, we have to get 'em out. And we're doing it.
TERRY MORAN: By law --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: And you'll pick out one man, but even the man that you picked out --
TERRY MORAN: He's got --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- he said he'd -- wasn't a member of a gang. And then they looked, and --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: On his knuckles -- he had MS-13 --
TERRY MORAN: Alright. There's dis -- there's a dispute over that --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. He had MS-13 --
TERRY MORAN: Well --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- on his knuckles tattooed.
TERRY MORAN: -- he -- he -- he -- it didn't say-- oh, he had some tattoos that are inper -- interpreted that way. But let's move on
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Wait a minute.
TERRY MORAN: I want --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Hey, Terry. Terry. Terry.
TERRY MORAN: He -- he did not have the letter --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Don't do that -- M-S-1-3 -- It says M-S-one-three.
TERRY MORAN: I -- that was Photoshop. So let me just--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: That was Photoshop? Terry, you can't do that -- he had --
-- he-- hey, they're givin' you the big break of a lifetime. You know, you're doin' the interview. I picked you because -- frankly I never heard of you, but that's okay --
TERRY MORAN: This -- I knew this would come --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But I picked you -- Terry -- but you're not being very nice. He had MS-13 tattooed --
TERRY MORAN: Alright. Alright. We'll agree to disagree. I want to move on --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Terry.
TERRY MORAN: -- to something else.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Terry. Do you want me to show the picture?
TERRY MORAN: I saw the picture. We'll -- we'll -- we'll agree to disagree --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Oh, and you think it was Photoshop. Well --
TERRY MORAN: Here we go. Here we go.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- don't Photoshop it. Go look --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- at his hand. He had MS-13 --
TERRY MORAN: Fair enough, he did have tattoos that can be interpreted that way. I'm not an expert on them.
I want to turn to Ukraine, sir --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, no. Terry --
TERRY MORAN: I-- I want to get to Ukraine--
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Terry, no, no. No, no. He had MS as clear as you can be. Not "interpreted." This is why people --
TERRY MORAN: Alright.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- no longer believe --
TERRY MORAN: Well.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: -- the news, because it's fake news --
TERRY MORAN: When he was photographed in El Sal -- in-- in El Salvador, they aren't there. But let's just go on --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He is --
TERRY MORAN: They aren't there when he's in El Salvador.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: --there -- oh, oh, they weren't there --
TERRY MORAN: Take a look at the photograph --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But they're there now, right?
TERRY MORAN: No. What --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: But they're there now?
TERRY MORAN: They're in your picture.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Terry.
TERRY MORAN: Ukraine, sir.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: He's got MS-13 on his knuckles.
TERRY MORAN: Alright. I --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Okay?
TERRY MORAN: -- we'll -- we'll take a look at it --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: It's -- it's -- you do such a disservice --
TERRY MORAN: We'll take a look. We'll take a look at that, sir --
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Why don't you just say, "Yes, he does," and, you know, go on to something else --
TERRY MORAN: It's contested. Ukraine. I want to turn -- I was just in Rome, and to that moving photograph of you and President Zelenskyy sitting in St. Peter's Basilica --
I did not realize that Trump thinks the labels are also actual tattoos until I saw this clip. WTF?
I had read about the incident, but until I looked at the transcript, I hadn't realized Trump was more insistent on not moving on from the issue than the reporter was. So dispiriting to see someone gesture toward (not really defend) the truth with nowhere near the forcefulness of the person asserting a lie.