Great article, Parker. Reminds me of this statement: If you are sitting at a table with 10 people who openly identify as Nazis, how many Nazis do you have? The answer is 11.
The desperation to find some way to say Trump isn’t that which he openly and proudly says he is is not going away.
And those 2017 questions, FFS. How many press conferences does a Republican get to put together a semi coherent, recognizably human statement? They’re begging him to be a human being (which he refuses), rather than asking what they would ask any Democrat, which would be some variation of “How much have you embarrassed yourself, and how will you deal with the fact that most of the country has no reason to respect you?”
And yet, as incoherent and confused as he was in this 2017 press conference, I couldn't help but think this is SO much more coherent than anything he says now.
It's incredible how frequently press and media will take the laziest possible bad faith statements at face value.
The entire thing is simple -- his supporters are Nazis and white supremacists, but he can't say those people are good. So he says some of the people at the Nazi rally aren't really Nazis.
You can do what Snopes does, take that at face value, and say "oh, he meant the ones that weren't Nazis". Or actually be intellectually honest about what's happening.
haven't read the Snopes bit yet, but I am amazed that they haven't yet figured out what I call trump's constant use of what I call Implausible Deniability. He did this on the escalator--"They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists" (and savings clause) "And some, I assume, are good people." With trump, it is what the dogs hear in the whistle that counts. And we all know what whistle the Neo Nazi's heard in "very fine people on both sides."
Notice how where he really kicks it into high gear is with: What about the alt-left, swinging their clubs, and why don't the media... yadda yadda. Because THAT is the thing that really lights their candle, their hatred of us. Even their own ideas - the few they still have - don't matter nearly as much as their hatred of us. They can't even know what to think about a thing until they know what we think about it, so they can take the opposite position. And then, of course, their response to any criticism is always to "whatabout" it with something we do, because they're obsessed and we never leave their brains. Just look at the comment here from our resident conservative commenter for an example.
I don't disagree with Parker, but I want to offer a different take. One that is less in the weeds of that particular event and aimed more at the bigger broader issue that I suspect Trump was thinking more about.
Here is what I wrote on Mastodon:
1) So, Mr. Trump, who were the fine people allied with the Nazis and white supremacists?
He said there were people quietly protesting the taking down of the Robert E Lee statue.
People who valorize the seditious and traitorous military leader of the pro-slavery South.
Not a new question.
2) He was trying to suck up to those who glorify the old Confederacy, who have been taught to do so for generations, with all of the willful blindness to the morality of the cause.
Those for whom the absolute worst racism is not a dealbreaker.
Those, he said, include “very fine people.”
3) Where are we in the 21st-century?
Is it OK to valorize the seditious traitors who fought to defend the absolute worst racism in American history? Can you do that and be a “very fine person?”
Trump leans into one side, the affirming one.
This is key to his coalition
4)) How close can you stand to the very worst racism in American history and be a very fine person?
What if it is racism so strong that it prompts traitorous violent sedition simply to defend *expansion* of the institution of slavery?
At this point, we in this country do not all agree.
It's what he does. Immigrants (some? all?) are gang members. And gang members are "animals.' (probably not all of even them, depending on how you define "animal.")
This particular conversation has broken my brain. People pointed out AT THE TIME that trump referred to the marchers the night before, who, not only were shouting abhorrent things, also beat the absolute shit out of the handful of counter-protesters. "Very fine people," indeed. Like what the fuck are we even doing here.
Just coincidentally, a couple of days ago I got my copy of A.R. Moxon's book, Very Fine People. But Moxon's argument, as I understand it, is much broader: That there are people in this country - specifically White, conservative people - who can NEVER be wrong. If they storm the capitol and beat up cops it's OK, it's justified, when they shoot people it's always in self defense, when they attempt to steal an election, it's OK, because the country really belongs to them and nobody else. And yes, this group includes ALL the people who came out to protest in support of the traitor Robert E. Lee.
I love the left pulling out photos and narratives of the de minimis number of right extremists to brand Trump with them even as Trump clearly has zero history of aligning with them or support them in his political ideas, policies and actions... and then the left attempts to deny the armies of left extremist, black-masked Maoist rioters burning down neighborhoods and claiming that Biden has nothing to do with them even as Biden's political ideas, policies and actions are in direct support of their left extreme demands.
I believe the name for the strategy Frank is employing here is "Changing the Subject." We were talking about Nazis, now we're talking about Maoists? Make an effort to speak to the topic at hand or be ignored.
Great article, Parker. Reminds me of this statement: If you are sitting at a table with 10 people who openly identify as Nazis, how many Nazis do you have? The answer is 11.
The desperation to find some way to say Trump isn’t that which he openly and proudly says he is is not going away.
And those 2017 questions, FFS. How many press conferences does a Republican get to put together a semi coherent, recognizably human statement? They’re begging him to be a human being (which he refuses), rather than asking what they would ask any Democrat, which would be some variation of “How much have you embarrassed yourself, and how will you deal with the fact that most of the country has no reason to respect you?”
And yet, as incoherent and confused as he was in this 2017 press conference, I couldn't help but think this is SO much more coherent than anything he says now.
It's incredible how frequently press and media will take the laziest possible bad faith statements at face value.
The entire thing is simple -- his supporters are Nazis and white supremacists, but he can't say those people are good. So he says some of the people at the Nazi rally aren't really Nazis.
You can do what Snopes does, take that at face value, and say "oh, he meant the ones that weren't Nazis". Or actually be intellectually honest about what's happening.
haven't read the Snopes bit yet, but I am amazed that they haven't yet figured out what I call trump's constant use of what I call Implausible Deniability. He did this on the escalator--"They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists" (and savings clause) "And some, I assume, are good people." With trump, it is what the dogs hear in the whistle that counts. And we all know what whistle the Neo Nazi's heard in "very fine people on both sides."
" And we all know what whistle the Neo Nazi's heard in "very fine people on both sides.""
Indeed. And judging by what the nazis had to say in the wake of his comments, they understood that trump was with them.
"Stand back and stand by"
Gosh, didn't he tell them to "stand back"? What's wrong with that, huh?
Notice how where he really kicks it into high gear is with: What about the alt-left, swinging their clubs, and why don't the media... yadda yadda. Because THAT is the thing that really lights their candle, their hatred of us. Even their own ideas - the few they still have - don't matter nearly as much as their hatred of us. They can't even know what to think about a thing until they know what we think about it, so they can take the opposite position. And then, of course, their response to any criticism is always to "whatabout" it with something we do, because they're obsessed and we never leave their brains. Just look at the comment here from our resident conservative commenter for an example.
I don't disagree with Parker, but I want to offer a different take. One that is less in the weeds of that particular event and aimed more at the bigger broader issue that I suspect Trump was thinking more about.
Here is what I wrote on Mastodon:
1) So, Mr. Trump, who were the fine people allied with the Nazis and white supremacists?
He said there were people quietly protesting the taking down of the Robert E Lee statue.
People who valorize the seditious and traitorous military leader of the pro-slavery South.
Not a new question.
2) He was trying to suck up to those who glorify the old Confederacy, who have been taught to do so for generations, with all of the willful blindness to the morality of the cause.
Those for whom the absolute worst racism is not a dealbreaker.
Those, he said, include “very fine people.”
3) Where are we in the 21st-century?
Is it OK to valorize the seditious traitors who fought to defend the absolute worst racism in American history? Can you do that and be a “very fine person?”
Trump leans into one side, the affirming one.
This is key to his coalition
4)) How close can you stand to the very worst racism in American history and be a very fine person?
What if it is racism so strong that it prompts traitorous violent sedition simply to defend *expansion* of the institution of slavery?
At this point, we in this country do not all agree.
It's what he does. Immigrants (some? all?) are gang members. And gang members are "animals.' (probably not all of even them, depending on how you define "animal.")
All you need to do is look at the policies promoted by #45's Senior Advisor Stephen Miller.
This particular conversation has broken my brain. People pointed out AT THE TIME that trump referred to the marchers the night before, who, not only were shouting abhorrent things, also beat the absolute shit out of the handful of counter-protesters. "Very fine people," indeed. Like what the fuck are we even doing here.
Just coincidentally, a couple of days ago I got my copy of A.R. Moxon's book, Very Fine People. But Moxon's argument, as I understand it, is much broader: That there are people in this country - specifically White, conservative people - who can NEVER be wrong. If they storm the capitol and beat up cops it's OK, it's justified, when they shoot people it's always in self defense, when they attempt to steal an election, it's OK, because the country really belongs to them and nobody else. And yes, this group includes ALL the people who came out to protest in support of the traitor Robert E. Lee.
I love the left pulling out photos and narratives of the de minimis number of right extremists to brand Trump with them even as Trump clearly has zero history of aligning with them or support them in his political ideas, policies and actions... and then the left attempts to deny the armies of left extremist, black-masked Maoist rioters burning down neighborhoods and claiming that Biden has nothing to do with them even as Biden's political ideas, policies and actions are in direct support of their left extreme demands.
OK, I'll bite. I'll try to understand what you are talking about.
Which neighborhoods?
And what do you mean by "Maoist"?
has Biden:
-defunded the police?
-turned the means of production over to the workers?
-divested from support for Israel's war crimes?
if not, what "extreme demands" from the left has he met?
I believe the name for the strategy Frank is employing here is "Changing the Subject." We were talking about Nazis, now we're talking about Maoists? Make an effort to speak to the topic at hand or be ignored.